Joe Hendricks wrote:
> Looks like he has decided extreme programming will best allow his
> perfectionist UI standards:
>
He was "the father of Visual Basic".
Why would anyone take anything he says or does seriously ?

Joe,

| He goes on...

...and on and on and on and on and on,...

Looks like he has decided extreme programming will best allow his perfectionist
UI standards:

http://www.cooper.com/insights/journ...e_next_st.html

"This is what Extreme programming is all about: Getting the chunks of code down
to pieces small enough to be useful as design tools."

He goes on to make interesting and imo, bizarre assumptions about 'production code'.

Alan is a very interesting guy, though I don't always agree with him.
Interesting enough, he put me in the acknowledgments on About Face... for
pointing out where I thought he was full of it<g>. I can't even remember
which part that was now (could have been several<g>). It kind of surprised
me.

He did OK on that VB thing though. It was nice while it lasted.

Dan

"Joe Hendricks" <hqters.backwards> wrote in message
news:24c1
[..]

Marc Rohloff [TeamB] wrote:

> He came up with the idea for the visual designer which Delphi, etc
> have copied. I don't think that's anything to complain about.

And that may have been revolutionary in its day, which was some decades
ago...
Who the heck is he now ?
He is just yet another consultant.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:04:52 +1100, none wrote:

> He was "the father of Visual Basic".
> Why would anyone take anything he says or does seriously ?

He came up with the idea for the visual designer which Delphi, etc
have copied. I don't think that's anything to complain about.
VB may have its short comings but it was nevertheless a revolutionary
product in its time.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:51:40 -0800, Joe Hendricks wrote:

> "This is what Extreme programming is all about: Getting the chunks of code down
> to pieces small enough to be useful as design tools."

TO me he is proposing the exact opposite, i.e. separating design and
code, aka BDUF, which is exactly what Agle methods are *not* about.

"Marc Rohloff [TeamB]" wrote
>
> He came up with the idea for the visual designer which Delphi, etc
> have copied. I don't think that's anything to complain about.

Agreed. Perhaps 'Father of RAD' would be a more appropriate term. He's still
all about user needs and interaction scenarios driving the development, and
that--IMHO--is the essence of the RAD approach.

The discussion of design vs. production engineers and their differing
products brought nothing to mind stronger than Frederick Brooks' injunction
to "plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow."

bobD

"Marc Rohloff [TeamB]" <marc> wrote in message
news:fdlg
>
> TO me he is proposing the exact opposite, i.e. separating design and
> code...

I didn't get that as being his point. He states that designers do write
code, they just don't cross the t's and dot the i's. Then the production
coders go through and using the designer's code as a "design explanation and
thought proofing" finish the product.

Bob Dawson wrote:

> Agreed. Perhaps 'Father of RAD' would be a more appropriate term.
> He's still all about user needs and interaction scenarios driving the
> development, and that--IMHO--is the essence of the RAD approach.

I think 'Father of RAD' is fair.

> The discussion of design vs. production engineers and their differing
> products brought nothing to mind stronger than Frederick Brooks'
> injunction to "plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow."

Uh huh, and VB is the one that needed to be thrown away ;)

Dan Barclay wrote:

> They did throw it away, not that it's a good thing though.

I used VB 1.0 -- briefly. As I recall, the code was so attached to the
controls that you could *only* see it by double clicking on a control,
and that made it very hard to discover which controls on a busy form
might yet be in need of code.

What I do remember clearly is that it didn't stay on my machine very
long ;)

Dan Barclay wrote:

> 1.0? Hehe. That was a concept release<g>

And barely that...

Delphi 1.0 was much better, even before release...

....uh, forget I mentioned that. ;)

"William Meyer" <meyer.wil> wrote in message
news:72a1
> Bob Dawson wrote:
>
>> Agreed. Perhaps 'Father of RAD' would be a more appropriate term.
>> He's still all about user needs and interaction scenarios driving the
>> development, and that--IMHO--is the essence of the RAD approach.
>
> I think 'Father of RAD' is fair.

Alan's first pass at it didn't use Basic at all. He had in mind a C-ish
language when he sold the idea to MS. MS had the "threaded pcode
interpreter" from QuickBasic/PDS and was able to plug that in quickly and
easily.

>> The discussion of design vs. production engineers and their differing
>> products brought nothing to mind stronger than Frederick Brooks'
>> injunction to "plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow."
>
> Uh huh, and VB is the one that needed to be thrown away ;)

They did throw it away, not that it's a good thing though.

MS screwed it up in so many ways, mainly because they didn't use it and
didn't understand it well enough.

I still steam when I use Delphi and see what VB could/should have been. If
it were up to me I'd make a Basic language option for Delphi... note: NOT a
VB clone, but use more Basic like syntax. For the unenlightned, that's
pretty much Object Pascal without as much "decoration" so it wouldn't be all
that hard. I'd make it close enough that you could use Delphi and
DelphiBasic in side by side units in project.

Dan

"Dan Barclay" wrote...
>
> He did OK on that VB thing though. It was nice while it lasted.

In one version or another VB like the Energizer Bunny® keeps going and
going...
http://www.panopticoncentral.net/arc.../01/22453.aspx

"none" <""yan\"@(none)"> wrote in message
news:b148
> Marc Rohloff [TeamB] wrote:
>
>> He came up with the idea for the visual designer which Delphi, etc
>> have copied. I don't think that's anything to complain about.
>
> And that may have been revolutionary in its day, which was some decades
> ago...
> Who the heck is he now ?
> He is just yet another consultant.

..... and author. I recommend his book 'The Inmates are Running the Asylum:
Why High Tech Products Drive Us Crazy and How to Restore the Sanity ' as a
thought-provoking read.