The so called advocates in comp.os.linux.advocacy are doing far more
harm to Linux than they are advocating Linux. The juvenile, asinine
nasty attitude of many if not most of the core members of that group
is more than enough to send a potential new Linux user toward the
Macintosh.

Here is a typical example of the lying, rabid Linux zealots trying to
cover the lies of one of their members by using a variety of tactics
that are just so typical of this group of sorry individuals.

In this message I will expose and dissect the tactics used by this
collection of maniacs to answer posts or posters that might bring up
some of Linux's weaknesses.


A thread was started under the topic " Do You Have To Buy Specific
Hardware For Linux"?

http://groups.google.ro/groups?dq=&h...TF-8%26hl%3Dro


Since every Linux advocate knows that Linux's support for current,
modern hardware is terrible it is imperative for the Leenucks nutters
to mobilize quickly to shoot this thread down before it gets started.
The last thing they need is to have potential Linux users see the
truth.

Jeff Gains makes a very specific point to ask about Dual Head Support
for a Matrox P650:

"So I got SuSE 9.1 pro. The PC is a dual Athlon MP2000+ and it has
built
in sound, 3 HD's and a DVD RAM plus a Matrox P650 dualhead graphics
card, nothing exceptional.

It installed fine and has an impressive range of apps but there is no
way in the world I can get dualhead working. The Matrox drivers are
for
XFree 4.3.0 and SuSE has some odd version of its own - 4.3.99 from
memory so I can't compile whatever it is that needs compiling to get
dualhead working. I did raise the question in a Linux news group,
asking if any of the standard drivers supported dualhead but no
response.

So, for now I've abandoned Linux. "


First response is from some kook named Peter Köhlmann
(Peter.Koehlmann)
who says:

"begin Jeff Gaines wrote:


< snip utter bullshit >

Quit lying. I use a dual-head setup with SuSE and a Matrox out of the
box
here.

You are either incredibly stupid to not get it working, or you are
just
another lying moron "

Now it's important to notice the technique that the Linokook is using
here.
Notice how he never mentions a Matrox P650 card but says only "Matrox"
?

This is a classic Linonutter technique for diffusing a thread.
It is used mostly with printers, the majority of which have an awful
time working with Linux and the way it goes is like this:

Newbie :"I have a Canon 1234 printer that I can't get working with
Suse Linux"
Linokook: My Canon works fine with Linux.

The fact that Canon makes 100 different printers doesn't seem to
bother the Linux nut and that just because his model works doesn't
mean the Canon 1234 model will work as well.


Also notice how he says it "works out of the box with Suse".
More on that later.

The next Linux idiot "7" posts this little gem:

"Flatness is a fishy thing these days."

"So flatfish why do you astro turf for M$?
Do they pay for every post, or is it that no one
is willing to do this dirty work and you are really Bull Gate$ in
person with all these multiple fake accounts?"



For those that may not know, this group has some kind of a weird
obsession with a poster named Flatfish and any post that is
anti-linux, or raises questions about the seedier side of Linux gets
blamed on Flatfish with no proof, no documentation nothing at all but
a handful of nutters backing each other up.

As it turns out, they misfired this time which they do just about 99
percent of the time because it comes out later that this guy is not
Flatfish.


This "7" also gets nasty as well which is a great way to help
potential Linux advocates:

"You are all the former and the latter not because there is any
technical flaw in your mind, but because of the the way you
choose to present yourself to others without integrity."

Huh?

Without integrity?

All the person did was ask a question and notice how he gets jumped
all over.



"Why? We are not your servants! Particularly as others have pointed
out its already working for them. If you can't fix it, hire a techie
to fix it. Go create some jobs man! Stop trying to associate your
incompetance with everything you can find around you.
Just hire the technies and let them do it."


Finally someone with a half a brain, large for a Linux Loonie, named
kier figures it out:

"Try googling him, I think you'll find he's got a history that goes
back at
least two years in various groups, including rec.video.dvd.tech. There
are
two posters by that name, one is 'our' Jeff Gaines of Damerham
Hampshire
UK, just like his sig says.

Sometimes, hardware that should work, just *doesn't*. He might just be
one
of the unlucky ones, and being a newbie, he won't know how to fix it
unless he's given some help."


Further down in the thread we have a real beauty where this "guy",
name Rexx Ballard
uses every trick in the Linux advocates handbook to diffuse the
thread.

He brings up all kinds of garbage about a Matrox G450 which is an
antique, old card that has nothing in common with the P650.
He pulls a distribution switcheroo by talking about Redhat when the OP
clearly talked about Suse and then he talks about different versions
of Xfree.

This guy must be a used car sales"man" on the side, he has to be.

Finally we have a challenge to Peter to explain how this card "works
out of the box" with Suse.

" You say you have a Matrox working in dual-head out of the box with
SuSE,
but you don't mention what model?
Is it a P650 like the OP has or some other model?
If indeed it is a P650 could you please let me know how you made
dual-head
work with the stock Suse Xfree and Suse 9.1?
I appreciate the help because I would like to use dual-head and have
been
unable to make it work.
Suse support team told me it is unsupported.
NT"

Of course the entire post now gets ignored as the Linux Kooks regroup
trying to figure out how to worm out of that obvious lie that Peter
Kohlmann made.


So I posted another thread, challenging Peter Kohlmann to explain how
the Matrox P650 works out of the box with Suse when in fact it is not
in their supported database and Suse support says it doesn't work.
Also there are many posts on the net from people who can't make dual
head work so how did he manage to do it, if indeed he really did.

http://groups.google.ro/groups?dq=&h...linux.advocacy

"In another thread concerning hardware support for Linux, "Do you have
to buy specific hardware for Linux", the poster asks a question
concerning Dual Head support for a Matrox P650.

You responded saying that it works "out of the box".

I would like to know:

1. How you made this work.
2. Why Suse technical support says it is not supported
3. Why the web is FILLED with posts about people who CAN'T make this
work?

So what's the story Peter?
Are you making this all up?
Or did you forget to include the fact that you are using a G450 when
you said "Matrox works in Dual Head mode".

So what is the real truth Peter?

I say you are lying.
Prove me wrong.

And for all the others that side stepped the original post, the board
is a Matrox P650.
The Linux system is Suse 9.1 out of the box.

So for all of you that have been saying "dual head works with Linux"
please be SPECIFIC as far as model is concerned or don't waste our
time and make yourself look like a fool."



It didn't take long for the Linux tactic of discrediting the poster to
kick in.

A Linokook named "7" starts it rolling:

"Flatness is a fishy thing grasshopper.

According to ye book of tech support Chapeter 7, verse 7:
"Ye who call the great GNU in vain
shalleth on his bended kees assume
the education position and hireth a consultant
whom shalleth fix thine ropey knowledge
of GNU and the great Linux
by fixing what thou cannoteth fix by
thine own hands."

Therefore you should hire a techie to fix
what you cannot fix yourself."


Peter Kohlmann avoids answering the challange by saying:

>No. It does not workj this way
>
>And yes, I say this setup works. Since you such an intelligent
flatfish, you
>will certainly find out how
>
>BTW, your crossposting gave you away (again). Youz know damn well
that
>crossposting to aow-xp is used for *one* sole purpose: Flatfish is
calling
>in the idiots for help


Notice that he could have made fools out of both the OP and myself had
he posted what he did to make this "work out of the box".

But he didn't, because he is lying and has been caught many times in
the past doing the same thing.

When he gets caught, he starts calling people *idiots* and slinks from
the thread hoping nobody will take notice and it will blow over.

This time it didn't blow over.

So there you have it, a typical Linux *advocacy* thread complete with
commentary so that others may learn what rabid, nasty, lying fools
this so called "Linux Community" really is.

And remember, these are the very same people that you will be turning
to when you need help with Linux, like Mr. Gaines did.

Is this really the type of people you want to deal with when you have
trouble with Linux?

I don't think so..

C

Saeed Bushoo wrote:
> The so called advocates in comp.os.linux.advocacy are doing far more
> harm to Linux than they are advocating Linux. The juvenile, asinine
> nasty attitude of many if not most of the core members of that group
> is more than enough to send a potential new Linux user toward the
> Macintosh.

Are these nasty guys also passing out money to buy Macs with?

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2004-09-03, Saeed Bushoo <cockalocka> wrote:
[deletia]
> He brings up all kinds of garbage about a Matrox G450 which is an
> antique, old card that has nothing in common with the P650.
> He pulls a distribution switcheroo by talking about Redhat when the OP
> clearly talked about Suse and then he talks about different versions
> of Xfree.

Linux is FREE.

If one distro doesn't work for you, you can always download
5 more that might not have the same problem.

Considering the fact that any linux distribution is nothing more
than different packaging on the same innards, this is not an unreasonable
thing. You can make any version of Redhat look identical to any version of
Suse if you really wanted too.

As far as 450 vs 650 goes: Unless you want to play America's Army
at some obscene framerate the fact that the 450 is a museum piece doesn't
really matter. Actually, the fact that it is a museum piece is actually a
PLUS. That means that if you are forced to replace hardware that it will be
a pretty cheap process.

[deletia]

With open relays such as Google, it is rather hard to sort out
the signal from the noise these days...

Saeed Bushoo wrote:
> The so called advocates in comp.os.linux.advocacy are doing far more
> harm to Linux than they are advocating Linux. The juvenile, asinine
> nasty attitude of many if not most of the core members of that group
> is more than enough to send a potential new Linux user toward the
> Macintosh.
>

Are you that stupid?

Do you let others attitudes and opinions sway you that easily?

> Here is a typical example of the lying, rabid Linux zealots trying to
> cover the lies of one of their members by using a variety of tactics
> that are just so typical of this group of sorry individuals.
>
> In this message I will expose and dissect the tactics used by this
> collection of maniacs to answer posts or posters that might bring up
> some of Linux's weaknesses.
>> A thread was started under the topic " Do You Have To Buy Specific
> Hardware For Linux"?
>

In my case, no. Linux will work fine on an IBM.

[..]
> this so called "Linux Community" really is.
>
> And remember, these are the very same people that you will be turning
> to when you need help with Linux, like Mr. Gaines did.
>
> Is this really the type of people you want to deal with when you have
> trouble with Linux?
>
> I don't think so..
>

Strawmans argument. Build up a very weak case so that you can easily
knock it over. Guffaw! You are nothing more than a troll in this case.
You are a rabid zealot in your own right.

begin Saeed Bushoo wrote:
< snip >

Idiot

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:43:19 -0700, Saeed Bushoo wrote:

> The so called advocates in comp.os.linux.advocacy are doing far more
> harm to Linux than they are advocating Linux. The juvenile, asinine
> nasty attitude of many if not most of the core members of that group is
> more than enough to send a potential new Linux user toward the
> Macintosh.

Strange. I'm a newbie, and it hasn't sent me anywhere.


> Here is a typical example of the lying, rabid Linux zealots trying to
> cover the lies of one of their members by using a variety of tactics
> that are just so typical of this group of sorry individuals.
>
> In this message I will expose and dissect the tactics used by this
> collection of maniacs to answer posts or posters that might bring up
> some of Linux's weaknesses.

There are no maniacs here. Rex may be a bit flaky in the sanity department
sometimes, but at least he is polite and doesn't spend his time flinging
insults.


>
> A thread was started under the topic " Do You Have To Buy Specific
> Hardware For Linux"?
>
> [..]
>> Since every Linux advocate knows that Linux's support for current,
> modern hardware is terrible it is imperative for the Leenucks nutters to
> mobilize quickly to shoot this thread down before it gets started. The
> last thing they need is to have potential Linux users see the truth.

What truth would that be? Hardware support is generally good. Now and then
it sucks like an electrolux. Jeff was unlucky. An NVidia card might have
served him better, but probably, as so often happens, his hardware was
bought before he decided to give linux a try, so he had to work with what
he had


> Jeff Gains makes a very specific point to ask about Dual Head Support
> for a Matrox P650:
>
> "So I got SuSE 9.1 pro. The PC is a dual Athlon MP2000+ and it has built
> in sound, 3 HD's and a DVD RAM plus a Matrox P650 dualhead graphics
> card, nothing exceptional.
>
> It installed fine and has an impressive range of apps but there is no
> way in the world I can get dualhead working. The Matrox drivers are for
> XFree 4.3.0 and SuSE has some odd version of its own - 4.3.99 from
> memory so I can't compile whatever it is that needs compiling to get
> dualhead working. I did raise the question in a Linux news group, asking
> if any of the standard drivers supported dualhead but no response.
>
> So, for now I've abandoned Linux. "

Getting the right versions of things can be a pain.


[..]
> here.
> Notice how he never mentions a Matrox P650 card but says only "Matrox" ?
>
> This is a classic Linonutter technique for diffusing a thread. It is
> used mostly with printers, the majority of which have an awful time
> working with Linux and the way it goes is like this:
>
> Newbie :"I have a Canon 1234 printer that I can't get working with Suse
> Linux"
> Linokook: My Canon works fine with Linux.

The only kook here is you, pal. Not that I agree with the way Peter
responded, I don't.


> The fact that Canon makes 100 different printers doesn't seem to bother
> the Linux nut and that just because his model works doesn't mean the
> Canon 1234 model will work as well.

Well, if one model in a range does, the chances are most others will. It's
like digital cameras. A lot of Olympus models work fine under linux. As it
happens, mine is one of those awkwards ones which doesn't - once again,
bopought before I started out with linux. Am I crying about it? Am I
blaming linux for it? No. Some things do work, some don't. A little
research beforehand helps enormously. When I buy a new camera, I'll go for
one I know will work.


>
> Also notice how he says it "works out of the box with Suse". More on
> that later.

Maybe it did, for him.


> The next Linux idiot "7" posts this little gem:
>
> "Flatness is a fishy thing these days."
>
> "So flatfish why do you astro turf for M$? Do they pay for every post,
> or is it that no one is willing to do this dirty work and you are really
> Bull Gate$ in person with all these multiple fake accounts?"
>>
> For those that may not know, this group has some kind of a weird
> obsession with a poster named Flatfish and any post that is anti-linux,
> or raises questions about the seedier side of Linux gets blamed on
> Flatfish with no proof, no documentation nothing at all but a handful of
> nutters backing each other up.

For those who may not know, flatfish is an nymshifting, lying, stupid
troll who disrupts this groups and puts everyones' backs up. Some people
have a knee-jerk reaction to anyone who comes on like flatfish, even
unintentionally.


> As it turns out, they misfired this time which they do just about 99
> percent of the time because it comes out later that this guy is not
> Flatfish.
>> This "7" also gets nasty as well which is a great way to help potential
> Linux advocates:
>
> "You are all the former and the latter not because there is any
> technical flaw in your mind, but because of the the way you choose to
> present yourself to others without integrity."
>
> Huh?
>
> Without integrity?
>
> All the person did was ask a question and notice how he gets jumped all
> over.

I didn't like how 7 reacted. Which is why I pointed out his mistake. As
did another poster.


>> "Why? We are not your servants! Particularly as others have pointed out
> its already working for them. If you can't fix it, hire a techie to fix
> it. Go create some jobs man! Stop trying to associate your incompetance
> with everything you can find around you. Just hire the technies and let
> them do it."
>> Finally someone with a half a brain, large for a Linux Loonie, named
> kier figures it out:

I'm the bloke you're talking about here, and I'm no loonie. I just use my
common sense. BTW, you're a wanker.


> "Try googling him, I think you'll find he's got a history that goes back
> at
> least two years in various groups, including rec.video.dvd.tech. There
> are
> two posters by that name, one is 'our' Jeff Gaines of Damerham Hampshire
> UK, just like his sig says.
>
> Sometimes, hardware that should work, just *doesn't*. He might just be
> one
> of the unlucky ones, and being a newbie, he won't know how to fix it
> unless he's given some help."

Which several people then attempted to give him, and for which he was
grateful.


>
> Further down in the thread we have a real beauty where this "guy", name
> Rexx Ballard
> uses every trick in the Linux advocates handbook to diffuse the thread.
>
> He brings up all kinds of garbage about a Matrox G450 which is an
> antique, old card that has nothing in common with the P650. He pulls a
> distribution switcheroo by talking about Redhat when the OP clearly
> talked about Suse and then he talks about different versions of Xfree.

What's a distribution switcheroo, chum? Rex suggested that what worked for
Redhat might suffice for SuSe. I've known Redhat RPMS to work on Mandrake,
and even suse. If he was wrong, fine, but he might have pointed the OP
towars something that he could use to get things going.


> This guy must be a used car sales"man" on the side, he has to be.

And this is relevant how? What Mr Ballard does in his spare time has
little to do with this.


> Finally we have a challenge to Peter to explain how this card "works
> out of the box" with Suse.
>
> " You say you have a Matrox working in dual-head out of the box with
> SuSE,
> but you don't mention what model?
> Is it a P650 like the OP has or some other model? If indeed it is a P650
> could you please let me know how you made dual-head
> work with the stock Suse Xfree and Suse 9.1? I appreciate the help
> because I would like to use dual-head and have been
> unable to make it work.
> Suse support team told me it is unsupported. NT"
>
> Of course the entire post now gets ignored as the Linux Kooks regroup
> trying to figure out how to worm out of that obvious lie that Peter
> Kohlmann made.

Huh? First prove that Peter lied. Then you may have a case.


[..]
> to buy specific hardware for Linux", the poster asks a question
> concerning Dual Head support for a Matrox P650.
>
> You responded saying that it works "out of the box".
>
> I would like to know:
>
> 1. How you made this work.
> 2. Why Suse technical support says it is not supported 3. Why the web is
> FILLED with posts about people who CAN'T make this work?

'Filled with posts' sounds like one hell of an exaggeration. As I said,
sometimes things will work, sometimes they won't Maybe Peter K has been
luckier than others. Maybe he is smarter. Probably he can't be bothered
responding to some he clearly despise - i.e you.


> So what's the story Peter?
> Are you making this all up?
> Or did you forget to include the fact that you are using a G450 when you
> said "Matrox works in Dual Head mode".
>
> So what is the real truth Peter?
>
> I say you are lying.
> Prove me wrong.

Why should he? Try proving he is lying first.


> And for all the others that side stepped the original post, the board is
> a Matrox P650.
> The Linux system is Suse 9.1 out of the box.
>
> So for all of you that have been saying "dual head works with Linux"
> please be SPECIFIC as far as model is concerned or don't waste our time
> and make yourself look like a fool."

Dualhead does work with linux. But linux is not one, monolithic entity, it
comes in many flavours, and runs on many different combinations of
hardware.


>> It didn't take long for the Linux tactic of discrediting the poster to
> kick in.
>
> A Linokook named "7" starts it rolling:
>
> "Flatness is a fishy thing grasshopper.
>
> According to ye book of tech support Chapeter 7, verse 7: "Ye who call
> the great GNU in vain
> shalleth on his bended kees assume
> the education position and hireth a consultant whom shalleth fix thine
> ropey knowledge of GNU and the great Linux by fixing what thou
> cannoteth fix by
> thine own hands."
>
> Therefore you should hire a techie to fix what you cannot fix yourself."

You told us about that already. 7 has his own weird way of looking at
things. In this case, I thought he was out of order. Often he isn't.


>
> Peter Kohlmann avoids answering the challange by saying:
>
> flatfish, you
> that
> calling
>> Notice that he could have made fools out of both the OP and myself had
> he posted what he did to make this "work out of the box".

Notice that you're *still* crossposting to groups unrelated to linux,
which are full of trolls.


> But he didn't, because he is lying and has been caught many times in the
> past doing the same thing.

Who by, and where?


> When he gets caught, he starts calling people *idiots* and slinks from
> the thread hoping nobody will take notice and it will blow over.
>
> This time it didn't blow over.

Only because you are still harping on it. The OP doesn't appear to have
held any grudges. He even apologised for sounding as if he was trolling in
his original post, when he was really just venting some frustration.


> So there you have it, a typical Linux *advocacy* thread complete with
> commentary so that others may learn what rabid, nasty, lying fools this
> so called "Linux Community" really is.
>
> And remember, these are the very same people that you will be turning to
> when you need help with Linux, like Mr. Gaines did.

This is an advocacy group, not a tech group. Being, as you are not,
genuine and sensible, Mr Gaines has gone in search of further advice in
linux groups more suited to his needs. I wish him luck in his quest, and
I'm sure things will improve for him.


> Is this really the type of people you want to deal with when you have
> trouble with Linux?
>
> I don't think so..

So what makes you think anyone takes you seriously, crossposting to
alt.os.windows-xp, a notirious troll-den?

(crossposts removed, follow-up set to cola)

kier wrote:
>
> There are no maniacs here.


*BLINK*

Error BR-549: MS DRM 1.0 rejects the following post from Saeed Bushoo:

> The so called advocates in comp.os.linux.advocacy are doing far more
> harm to Linux than they are advocating Linux. The juvenile, asinine
> nasty attitude of many if not most of the core members of that group
> is more than enough to send a potential new Linux user toward the
> Macintosh.

Sticks 'n' stones, man. Sticks 'n' stones.

The rest of your post was like the raving ramblings of a drunk, crazy, and
very itchy man.

In article <6e9f8efc.0409031043.397adfb8>,
cockalocka says...
> The so called advocates in comp.os.linux.advocacy are doing far more
> harm to Linux than they are advocating Linux. The juvenile, asinine
> nasty attitude of many if not most of the core members of that group
> is more than enough to send a potential new Linux user toward the
> Macintosh.

Spoken like someone who has spent no time in CSMA.

> Here is a typical example of the lying, rabid Linux zealots trying to
> cover the lies of one of their members by using a variety of tactics
> that are just so typical of this group of sorry individuals.
>
> In this message I will expose and dissect the tactics used by this
> collection of maniacs to answer posts or posters that might bring up
> some of Linux's weaknesses.

Yawn!!! How bored are you that you wrote this whole freaking message,
(which I didn't bother reading as I figured it would be a few minutes of
my life I could never get back).

Most of the more common stuff works with most of the Linux
distributions most of the time. However, the tools are provided also
so that you can make it work if you know what you are doing or can
hire someone who does. That's not always or usually the case with
Windows and historically was very much not the case with the
pre-Unix-based piece of shit Mac OS. No one ever made a parallel port,
as far as I was aware, on a NuBus card for a 68K or early Power Mac.

In practice, commercial "real Unix" vendors' stuff had just as many
problems as does Linux on commodity PC hardware. And you had to buy
high dollar "country kits" instead of mice and keyboards from the
local ConsumoShithole. But the Suns, SGIs, HP 9000s, and
DECstations-and remember the Intergraphs?-did look cool.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 21:41:12 +0200, Peter Köhlmann
<Peter.Koehlmann> wrote:

>begin Saeed Bushoo wrote:
>< snip >
>
>Idiot

Peter let's face it, you are one EGOTISTICAL dude!. I've seen how you
threat others PROZAC LOTS OF PROZAC for you. all folks have to do
is sort all your answers and see for themselves. if it pains you so
much to answer you SHOULD just shut the fuck up and let others answer.

just look at your sig line....ego macho bullshit all the way.

no one here can deny that Linux lacks behind in the driver area.(this
is mostly due to OEM bias and so called trade secrets)

just like no one in here can deny Windows lacks in Security.

thank god there are LOTS of level minded people in these groups too.
that give POLITE suggestions, and of course thank god for GOOGLE too.

btw not a great job on mangling those headers, you need to google
a.u.o-r.f-a.m rememeber the wabit? he did it right!

it's funny you ck the newbies post headers and if he's posting from
windows you blast away...........as if you've never heard of dual
booting.

it's time to take a break if you can't handle the groups
anymore................ adios pancho

don't bother KF me I can post thru proxies at *many* places and NSP's

Your right, there are a number of zealots hitched to linux. You either
ignore them or give them what for. I too was called "flatfish" but shoved
it right back in their spotty faces. Stick with it and never "bend your
knee". Remember it's the principle of the thing, without principles you
are an animal. Only with logic and truth can there be satisfaction in
life. All else is a cesspit.


On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:43:19 -0700, Saeed Bushoo wrote:
[..]

begin res7 wrote:

< snip idiots rant >

> don't bother KF me I can post thru proxies at *many* places and NSP's

I certainly will not killfile anyone so astonishing stupid like you

roy wrote:

> Your right, there are a number of zealots hitched to linux. You either
> ignore them or give them what for. I too was called "flatfish" but shoved

hello flatness, why do you hide behind so many screen identities
to astro turf for M$?

[Followup-To to advocacy...]

In <dmeij01af6uurt9os2oni5qqs4amr55oqk>, res7:

[Snip...nothing to do with SuSE...]

> don't bother KF me I can post thru proxies at *many* places and NSP's

Well, get busy, you wascally hax0r, you.

<PLONK>